Fruit trees: an election issue

So share the recipe for all of us ... and I'll send you a decent cherry wine version. And a contact for the cherries ... seeing as how you only have the flowering variety in the chiller down there.

What you all need to do as growers is promote a habitat for the humble old bumble bee ... there are many different varieties in NZ. The bumble bee is active earlier than the Porsche racing car-like honey bees, so best you do some research on promoting good habitat for bumbles.

Great to see that Dunedinites have not become totally detached from where their food actually comes from. Good luck trying to educate your over-indulged bureaucrats and politicians, however.

Anna, what you say may be true; but I'll stick with my version. How otherwise to explain that a couple of years ago, when the conditions which I detailed co-incided, we had a huge crop of plums, turned many of them into wine, gave away almost as many again for neighbours to make jam etc, (which they later shared), and even invited friends to come and pick their own if they felt so inclined. All that without a 'golden drop' or any outside assistance. Incidentally, the tree is approximately fifty years old. I'll stick with bees, for assistance with pollination, plus, (although to what extent I do not know), the birds.

One recent balmy night when a few of us naive idealists were guerilla-planting a greengage somewhere in the town belt, we also put in a golden drop nearby. The reason for this was plums supposedly don't fruit well on their own and need a companion variety for pollination.
So you see, even if you had a sole bee, it probably couldn't do much for your sole tree. More trees, not fewer, may be the answer for you Mr Smith.

We have a fifty-year-old plum-tree in our front-yard - it pre-dates our occupancy of 44 years. It rarely bears much in the way of plums, because two events have to coincide annually; the visits of sufficient numbers of bees to the blossom, before the equinoctal gales strip the tree bare of it. This year it's a lottery because, although the blossom wasn't advanced enough to be completely removed by last-weekend's gales, I have yet to see a single bee paying it a visit. For that reason, I regard much of the correspondence about fruit trees in this thread as highly hypothetical, if not a bit presumptuous. It will only work, once the bees have been got onside.

Hendrik Koch replies by email:
Kia ora Anna and Kia ora koutou to all who read your website,
I am the co-ordinator of the Shetland Street Community Garden/Conservation Nursery, located at the source of the Kaikorai Stream adjacent to the Arai-te-uru Marae. The Dunedin Environment Centre Trust established the gardens and nursery over 10 years ago with the aim of encouraging organic/perma-culture gardening and community participation in restoring our urban stream-scapes. There are a few fruit trees and many small fruit bushes planted at the gardens. We have also recently planted a community orchard across the road at the Kaikorai Commons as a part of a much larger wetland restoration project. We have initiated and managed many other conservation projects and have sponsored/supported the establishment of several edible gardens in schools around Dunedin. We support the Enviro Schools programme [Education for Sustainable Living] and are pleased that the Dunedin City Council has continued to assist with funding regardless of the Government's cuts. The opportunity for our young folk to learn about recycling, growing food and looking after their environment is essential for our society to reconnect to the life-force that sustains us.
Community gardens can help to promote and facilitate neighbourly co-operation as well as become a hub for the community to share knowledge. The gardens can also be a focal point for sharing seed, seedlings and produce. The level of interest in establishing school and community gardens has grown dramatically. The enthusiasm for planting fruit trees in public locations has mushroomed. The obstacles and management issues are many, but the benefits are well worth it. I believe community gardens are more likely to be sustainable if the purpose goes beyond just growing food. Becoming an educational resource and providing opportunities for the wider community to participate in a range of activities.
I would like the council to help facilitate and establish community gardens throughout the city and possibly in partnership with schools. Being able to secure the Shetland St Community Gardens against theft has been a major problem. Good neighbourly relations are helpful, but people are easily demoralised if their hard work is for nothing. The prospect of defining the gardens boundary and maybe if required constructing a fence is far more straightforward on school grounds than public reserves but Council can form policy and make District Plan changes if there is enough support in the community. The feedback on this website has given me confidence people want greater involvement in what they eat and the health of their environment. I suggest a hui could be organised with the support of council to focus on assisting the establishment of community gardens and orchards throuhgout the city. Let's hope we have a more environmentally aware and socially-just council after the election.
Hendrik Koch
Central Ward candidate
Community VISION

Lee Vandervis replies by email:
I am not surprised by your excellent response to fruit trees in public places. Fruit trees and Community gardens are the way of our sustainable future [the only future we will have], not just because of their productive potential, but because of the social cohesion they encourage. There have been some good stories about Community gardens on National radio recently, and the fruit trees/gardens in public places will encourage more people to put them in private places as well.

At home we have about 30 fruit trees in our garden, 20 of which I am growing on till they are big enough for planting on our farm. My wife and I have made 16 metres of raised bed garden supplying most herbs all year, and most salads through the summer, and we have plans to double this area soon.
I believe that DCC parks and gardens staff would be receptive to more productive rather than just ornamental plantings, and a lead from elected representatives would promote the process.
DCC staff have told me of being very discouraged by vandalism of plantings, especially trees in the North End, so an investment in fruit trees would have to be carefully positioned to lessen such damage.

Lee Vandervis
(Dunedin mayoral candidate)

This issue was brought up in the last round of elections and I was one to strongly promote the concept. I am glad to see that over the last 3 years it has gained strength through implementation. It is so obviously sensible.
However the Dunedin City Council does need to catch up and develop policy which further supports the planting and co-ordinating of food bearing planting spaces.

The edge of the sports grounds and around the edges of local schools as well as along the side of the motorway running south out of Dunedin are some excellent places to start.
Fruit and nut tree and berry bush planting for people and birds are excellent ways of engendering a sense of prosperity and do not require a budget blow-out. It is simply a budget re-allocation in an already allocated fund.
We will be able to tangibly taste the benefit.

Tracey Crampton Smith

Candidate for
Central Ward

Dunedin City Council

Most interesting. I generally support the principle outlined by Fliss and Jinty. There are a lot of small reserves scattered all over the city that could be used for planting providing climatic conditions are right and there are groups or someone wishing to be involved. If there is a will, there is a way. First step, to find out where they are.
As for street trees, I am proud of being one of the original promoters of ‘Trees in Streets.' Got off to a great start down George Street and what a difference it has made. My only worry at the moment is that some are not, perhaps, being tended as they should and may result in 'crowding problems'.
Increased funding for tree planting, or indeed any real priority, has not been forthcoming in recent times but there have been some great individual contributions, the latest on Hillside Road by Hillside Engineering.
One of the problems is getting suitable trees that can tolerate the conditions and flowering fruit trees have little hope of survival. And then there is the wanton vandalism. It needs all the fingers on two hands - and sometimes more - to count some of the times replacements have been made.

'Jinty', don't commit the sacrilege of harvesting the fruits of the elder at the flower stage. Keep the birds at bay for long enough for the berries to ripen and plan instead to convert them into wine. When combined with a proportion of backberries, (preferably of the 'wild' variety), fermented, regularly racked-off then left to mature for up to ten years, the wine can be the nectar-of-the-gods. 'The Memsahib' has been making this wine for years and frequently a bottle accompanies Sunday lunch in our household, an altogether satisfying experience productive of scintillating conversation, (well, it seems 'scintillating' by the bottom of the bottle). If you want the details, you have but to ask.

I'm more inclined to agree with Ian Smith. However before any new project starts What about sorting the trees we have?. I live in Surrey St. between Hillside Rd. and Macandrew Rd. We have trees there that are a continual source of annoyance to the people who lose all the sun to the front of their houses. Those that don't have that problem have the leaves filling their house guttering meaning they have to get somebody in to clean them out. These trees seem to be never pruned as severely as those in the St Clair area. They also have roots that are breaking drive ways up, the Councild did help one ratepayer who had their driveway resealed only to have the roots break it again in a short while. We have asked and asked our Dear Council to no avail. The trees are now fifty years old and not suitable by their size to a residential area. What makes is worse about three years ago they planted two more.

One solution to a number of the "problems” above, such as: fruit becoming missiles or gooey mess on the footpath or roots cracking pipes and paths; is to concentrate on a register or fruit trees.
Allow me to explain. It is not always appropriate to plant fruit trees on the grass verge. But that doesn't mean you can't plant them in places that people can easily access them.
Thumbs up to Dave O'Kane and co in Pinehill for the fruit trees in the reserves. Kudos to Transition 473 who are working on fruit trees in NEV. We've been approached to have a community garden and orchard on land at our school NEV Normal. A great idea.
We can also encourage the planting of fruit trees on private property and by having a register of trees volunteers in the neighbourhood can help care for the trees, harvest the fruit/nuts, and distribute them.
I know this works in other cities. It takes some dedicated people to give it the oomph to get it going. (think of Rotary and all of the 'unwanted' citrus that harvest in the North Island and distribute in the South Island free of charge - it can be done).
The council can encourage this but as others have said it’s something that with the right regulatory framework and culture of possibility thinking can easily be done by the community.

peace and hope always

Steve

In the upcoming elections, I hope that the citizens of Dunedin are going to focus on some real issues instead of fruit trees.
Whether or not to plant fruit trees is a decision that can be made after the DCC election, by which time we hopefully have elected a transparent "people's" council as opposed to the secretive and destructive bunch we have now.

Kia ora Trippy,
Thanks for sharing your experiences and ideas. We're not lucky enough where I rent to have any old fruit trees, but we do have some phenomenal elderflower trees, and my Mum has given me some wonderful elderflower cordial recipes.
Another idea - is there a way that the DCC could help establish or promote a Dunedin OOOBY trading post, to enable swapping and dissemination of excess produce? This would give community gardeners and fruit harvesters an outlet for their produce, reducing the incidence of 'Mushy Pear Throwers'... http://ooooby.ning.com/profiles/blogs/what-is-ooooby
Cheers,
Jinty

A way better idea in my view for Dunedin-wide sustainability has nothing to do with fruit trees per se. Go up on St Clair heights and look over the city. The biggest tract of land "unused" is the Forbury Park raceway.

My suggestion is to move the club to Wingatui - there are no major impediments to running racing and trotting on concentric tracks. Why duplicate all the betting stuff, grandstands and the like? The number of race meetings either track holds is minimal. Why we need two tracks these days is beyond me.

Then return the land to what it was years ago - market gardens. Run them as allotments or leased plots. People can sell produce at the Farmer's market or use it themselves, and the DCC can supply compost from the landfill sites, and of course the ensuing compost from the plots.

Bet the trotting industry councillors like Syd Brown will be all for this.

Everything else being equal, if a tree species has an aesthetic appeal in its own right, the fruit and nuts come as something of a bonus. But as for such trees in public places, I have some misgivings after reading of the fate of the pears grown in the Town Belt being used as missiles, as mentioned in another posting on this thread.
Up until retirement, I worked at a university hall of residence where the food services were of a very high standard. During the winter months, when such luxuries as oranges were a distant memory on our incomes, the hall dished out one orange per student at lunchtimes as a matter of course. Naturally, the spoiled brats (with a few notable exceptions) saw fit not to consume these, but to use them as missiles. On some days, in the early afternoons, certain areas would be littered with split-open oranges of no use to anyone, but representing a significant expenditure for an organisation in which this largesse failed to trickle down into a living wage for staff. So, I feel that while encouragement to grow trees on private property is a 'goer', such trees in public places are not. Even our much-loved walnut tree of years past, when finally felled, went to a craftsman wood-turner to do with as he saw fit.

What a great idea Anna - and not a minor issue at all. Times are going to be tough in the next few years, and the council is not going to have millions to give to community projects.
What the new council can do is to provide a supportive environment for projects such as this. Often it's not about money but about making it easy for communities of interest to get on and do what they want to do.
Rather than setting a whole lot of rules and departments of fruit tree approval, the council could simply identify land for community use and let people get on with it.
Personally, I'm not too worried if we finished up with a few untidy apple trees or un-pruned plums, but I am excited by the idea of groups getting together to plant trees, grow food and have fun together.
Imagine a council that promoted and supported projects like that.

Lindsay Smith
Greater Dunedin

What an awesome idea. I think I'd like to see some more ideas from candidates as well. I'm going to have to disagree with Fliss on one minor point. At home I have plums, apples and blackcurrants (that I can recall anyway). My wife and I don't put a great deal of effort into any of them - we haven't pruned the apple tree in the 4-5 years we've been where we are - but they're still productive. The apple tree is productive enough that there are apples left on it for the wax-eyes and silver-eyes at the end of the season to see them through part of the winter (along with bread scraps).
As far as messes go though, we have a council-owned and council-pruned tree (no idea what it is, hazel maybe) that leaks sap on my car through various parts of the year, and we have something on our section that the Kereru really adore that causes them to leave big red and/or purple 'splotches' on our path and car. But I don't mind, because living in an environment where my kids can simply step out the door, or peer out the window and enjoy NZ's native fauna is worth it.

As far as the maintenance of these gardens goes, here's some ideas: See if it can be included in the community service 'jobs list' - I think it would probably be a shoe-in, although this might create other potential problems. Investigate the possibility of having it added to the Task Force green projects - it'd make great training for aspiring fruit pickers. Investigate the possibility of working in with Otago Polytechnic, and offering it as work experience in conjunction with their horticultural courses. Any or all of these stand to be of potential additional benefit to the community, and I'm sure there are other options. 

I agree Fliss, see my posting below.
As I said, don't re-invent the wheel - the community groups are there. If the public want it then the community groups will back it, and the council should support in a maintenance/governance type fashion.
Great to see this blog taking off. I look forward to hearing more. I am also happy to hear from people on mosgiel.taieri@gmail.com if they do not want to 'go public' with their thoughts.
Craig
Mosgiel-Taieri ward candidate

Great news, farsighted. Plants can be grown from seeds or cuttings and, with the voluntary enthusiasm of the likes of Leanne in Wingatui (see below), they needn't cost much to grow and maintain. I agree we seem to be headed for a poorer city in terms of finances, so I raised this issue partly as a way to gauge which councillors are going to help us have a resilient and rich city in other ways. Ain't you ever been broke and miserable and gone to the library and suddenly felt wealthy with free books? Or just spent a few hundred bucks at the supermarket and then come across a pear-laden tree in the town belt and gone "Ooh, free groceries!" (or, as MikeStk would have it, "WOOHOO, MUSHY PEAR FIGHT!!!")?
If you want councillors who are NOT thinking in terms of how to make the best of a bad situation, then I recommend you vote for the old-boy incumbents, all of whom were invited to comment here and none of whom have squeaked. Oh, but wait. They were the ones who voted to indebt you up to your farseeing eyeballs in the first place...

Hi Anna,
I think it vital that, in order to meet a vision of an attractive and resilient city, communities should be empowered to work together so their place matches their vision. Hence I am entirely supportive of changes to policy that support communities in developing food forests and community gardens.

I am very proud to say that the LivingCampus at Otago Polytechnic was my initiative. The LivingCampus celebrates bringing a sustainable future to the core of what we do. Can you imagine my delight last month when I was chairing an international computing conference here and was able to point out the window to see groups of hospitality students tending their patch and bringing in that day’s conference lunch?

It would be difficult to directly translate this to the whole city, but there are principles that we can benefit from. In short, it is the combination of these things that makes the LivingCampus successful.

First, the LivingCampus operates as a food production habitat that celebrates all aspects of urban agriculture: community ownership; permaculture; heritage (of plants, agriculture systems, and place); and technological development. It aims to foster sustainable local food systems.

We have demonstrated that sustainable practice can be integrated into normal business practice, indeed enhancing that business (our restaurant is now approaching closed loop in several areas). It has been critical that the LivingCampus is “owned” by our various communities. The council could facilitate this across the city.

Second: everything is an opportunity for engagement. The majority of the population is divorced from the places and processes that produce the food they eat and medicines they take and clothes they wear. Awareness of issues is difficult when the centre of production is, for many, the supermarket.

Rather than just being a “garden”, LivingCampus is focused on a high quality learning experiences for our community. Even if they don’t benefit from the food - or take up home gardening – students, staff and visitors to our campus can begin to appreciate the systems behind our daily lives.

Third: the LivingCampus is integrated into the wider infrastructure of the campus. That is, it adds sustainable value to the infrastructure: providing composting facilities and so on, while still recognising needs such as access, safety and maintainability and cost. We could maximize food production, but at the cost of all the other services this place provides. In terms of financial cost- we already pay to maintain a garden – it might as well be a productive one.

The same applies to the city – pipelines etc should not be affected, and cost should go down as communities take responsibility for their space. As visitors to LivingCampus will attest, it is also attractive – we shouldn’t have to sacrifice ornament.

We describe the LivingCampus as “more than a garden, more than a museum, more than a campus”. It is an “open-air interactive learning environment, crossed with a community garden, crossed with a vibrant learning institution”. I’d be really interested to hear feedback on an equivalent vision for the city.

Regards

Samuel Mann – Greater Dunedin.
Associate Professor : Otago Polytechnic

Good one Anna - looks like you opened the proverbial can of worms with this and the ones in my worm farm are loving it.
Com'on Far Sighted - what about celebrating beauty and ways to make oxygen as well as Council having to look after poo pipes. Life can't be all about functionality surely? Fruit and nut trees on public land is great way to make city a better place. Any one else agree?

Food forests do take a lot of work. Despite the literature saying they are easy care I know from experience they are not. Easy to establish but hard to maintain. Fruit and nut trees across city - yeah baby... I love the idea of them - but they still need people to look after them.
Agreed that we need lots of different ways to care for the city and important to have a hopeful way to sustain ourselves but Council doing big stick thing not always best solution. To get better public buy in grass roots projects, in my opinion, are way to go. Council is then in background charged with keeping general eye on maintainance - this service than paid for via rates.

A friend once moved to a house where someone had planted a cherry plum on the street - every year people picked what they could reach, birds got at some of what they couldn't and the remainder fell to the ground. Cleaning up the resulting sticky mess became a continual chore to avoid people falling on the footpath or parking cars sliding into each other.

There are pear trees in the town belt, school kids have found them to be great missiles especially when soft. The results litter the footpath downhill from the tree at the right time of the year.

By all means grow public fruit trees, but not just anywhere, plan for the downside as well as the upside - if you're going to plant actual street trees make sure you have the home owner's buy in to keep the area around them clear and safe.

Shane Gallagher replies by email:

Hi Anna,
Great topic to bring up. This is something where Council can and should make a big difference. I totally support the idea and believe that we can expand it to include community gardens.
There are numerous advantages to developing community gardens; growing fruit and vegetables locally for use by the community. It reconnects people back to the process of creating food - if you realise how much effort goes into growing food and how much enjoyment and satisfaction you get from doing it - you appreciate it more. It brings people together and builds communities.

How amazing would it be to have people who have retired and are probably expert gardeners teaching children how to garden? Both would benefit and through that common task would build relationships that otherwise may never happen.
I think we should look at something like Jamie Oliver's Ministry of Food concept - you grow the food, but how then do you turn that into something tasty and healthy to eat? There are lots of amazing chefs here in Dunedin and maybe we can tap into that talent base to help develop good cooking skills and help empower people to make healthy food choices.
I should probably stop as I could talk about this for hours...
If I am elected then I would push for council to work with the community to bring these kind of initiatives into fruition, quickly and easily. Council should be there to empower people, not get in the way.
If you want you can contact me at shane@shanegallagher.org.nz
Kia ora.

Shane Gallagher - standing with Greater Dunedin

You are joking, right?
The city is in debt up to and past the eyeballs, has significant governance and financial challenges that will require great care to manage and you want to make fruit trees an election issue?

I completely support fruit trees, nut tees, and berry bushes in public spaces . I am, of course, behind community gardens 100% too.
Having free food available in public spaces isn't a minor issues in my view - it's a fundamental issue for the well-being of our community. Apart from the obvious benefit of being able to harvest the produce, having food growing for everyone to harvest creates a sense of community spirit.
There are many DCC policies that are outdated and need to be revamped, and this is a brilliant example.
It makes sense to update this policy to fit with a more sustainable, self-sufficient approach. It fits into the community well-being objectives of the DCC too.
I envision a council that is happy to allocate land and resources for community garden projects. It would be great to see more fresh produce available to our city's foodbanks. Low socio-economic groups are often too busy struggling to survive, and contemplating learning to grow your own food is often hard to manage.
I really believe the saying 'be the change you want to see', and our council should be leading by example as far as trying to feed ourselves, and our community.
Warm Regards,
Olive McRae,
Independent Candidate for Central Ward
www.olivemcrae.co.nz

You have raised an interesting issue.
The Keep Dunedin Beautiful Committee, Parks and Gardens and the local communities all have a stake in and input into the sustainable beautification of the city. Community gardens have worked well elsewhere but they are closely-held communities. The key to success would be the taking of ownership of any project by the local community.
My own thrust would be for the beautification of streets by the planting of native trees. Fruit trees work well in closely-held communities, and the concept could extend to open urban spaces. For it to work, the council's support and community commitment would be necessary. I would support such initiatives.
Chris Marlow,
Candidate - Dunedin City Council (Central Ward)

Good afternoon Anna,

I agree that the planting of fruit trees is important, sustainable and is about far more than benefits for renters.
I grew up on Inglis St in Mosgiel, when we were kids we would pick supermarket bags full of plums from our street. Much to the anguish of my poor mother who would be tasked with stewing several kgs of yummy plums for hours on end.
The sad thing was that if it was not for us and our school friends most of the fruit was left to rot on the ground. Now I hear that this has turned around somewhat in recent years (plums being $6 a kg in the supermarkets possibly helps) so that is great, it is sad to think of all that fruit going to waste.

In line with what Trevor is saying I do not actually believe that this needs to be at a great cost to ratepayers. Rotary groups, Lions and community organisations could easily fund, install and maintain fruit trees for communities as part of their outreach programme. If there was small community pockets/suburbs with a want for initiatives like this I have no doubt that there would also be service organisations willing to support them.

Happy harvesting all,

Craig Watson
Mosgiel-Taieri Ward Candidate

Teresa Stevenson replies by email:
My name is Teresa Stevenson I am a current city councillor, I support a change in our street tree policy which is out of date, and invite you to contact me after the elections, so I can inform you how to initiate a policy change. I think we also need a policy on making spare land available for community gardens, one group (some time ago) asked for land and was told the DCC had nothing available. Lately it has been easier but only if the group identifies some spare land available first.

Council staff could be more proactive in helping community groups identify land on the edge of sports fields or reserves that may be suitable, to give them some options. I support nut trees, currents, gooseberries, and fruit trees being planted on council grounds, and [having] community groups identified to assist in the harvesting, processing, and distribution to ensure that wastage does not occur. This ensures a degree of food security in communities and should be part of economic civil defence.