Opposition mounts over plan to ban Knox rituals

I hardly see that the entire fabric is being torn down. Half the things that people are protesting as "changes in tradition" were only introduced when Bruce took the reins at Knox (which hardly constitutes real tradition when he's only been in charge 18 years of the 103 year history). Did you know that the Porters Lodge was only named the Porters Lodge in 2008? And what about the new rules is going to stop students from dressing up for dinner? No one is going to be expelled for wearing a jacket and tie/ I highly suggest that those who are citing "tradition" read 'A Living Tradition' which outlines the history of Knox from 1908-2008.

As for KCSC I do disagree that it is wrong that the Commission is trying to exercise so much control in this area, however considering the vast amounts of money that went unaccounted for in the years that I was a Knoxie, I am not surprised that this has become an issue. Placing 18 and 19 year old students in control of well in excess of $50000 of subs without any real accountability can often lead to problems.

Finally, I understand that 90% of student want to return. I did. Twice. However some consideration needs to be given to the reasons that the other 10% chose to leave. Certainly, it may simply be that they have gotten all they could out of Knox one year. However, the "disaster stories" that you mention were plentiful in my three years and I feel that often they were swept under the carpet in order to keep the College in a good light. All that aside, Knox will still be unique no matter what changes are made, because it is the students that make Knox so special.

I am sorry to hear that the families of knox parent, Violet and mapre have had scary, unliked or otherwise bad times at Knox College. 

However I think it is important to reiterate comments that are explictly mentioned here in this very article: No person who is protesting the changes has any problem whatsoever with the alcohol reform. It is necessary and right. I personally wonder if prohibition will have any positive effect on student safety when a drunk student needing urgent medical attention (or his or her friends) is afraid to seek help for fear of being punished/expelled, but nevertheless alcohol reform is clearly needed.

What we are unhappy about, and what is rather unfathomable is how reforms can be called "about student safety" and include the renaming of posts within the College? How they can include the removal of dress code at dinners? How can they include preventing students from retaining strong intergenerational bonds with students of prior years, which are what have made the College so special to myself and countless others? How can they include attempting to annex an independant incorporated society? These are among the issues we take issue with, not alcohol reform.

Finally, there are disaster stories from any hostel or College or Hall, call them what you will. People can have a bad experience anywhere. This is very saddening, but an unfortunate fact of life. However should the entire fabric of a wonderful College in which somewhere around 90% of students eagerly return for a second year, far above anywhere else in the country, be torn down? Of course not. Reform alcohol rules, but leave the parts that enrich the lives of so many alone.

[Abridged]

Thank you so much for posting your experiences with the Knox 'culture'. As a recent alumni on the wrong side of this argument (I am supportive of many of the changes), it is great to know that I am not alone in my experiences at Knox, and that I am not the only one who does not condone many of the practices that are being termed "traditions". In today's paper Bruce Aitken was cited saying "with the interview with Bruce Aitken, in which he stated that "many residents either did not drink, or did so only moderately".  This was certainly not my experience and I hope that the ODT will start to take notice of comments such as yours and publish a more balanced account of what is going on. 

I wholeheartedly agree with you.  Knox needs to change their behaviour fast!

My daughter attended Knox College as her father is Knox Alumni; however, during her stay the behaviour of the students was absolutely unbelievably atrocious.  For example:

Drunken vomit all through the communal areas; cases and bottles of alcohol everywhere in the college, along with smashed glass bottles and debris; drunks wandering around being rude to everyone; doors to individuals' rooms were ripped off and occupants dragged out and humiliated; gangs of boys banging on a female student's door at midnight, threatening them sexually (yes this is true, I was on the end of the phone when this happened to my daughter and I was about to call the police it got so frightening); genitals being waved in the faces of freshers as part of the hazing ritual at Freshers Week.

If Otago is trying to clean up its reputation in NZ and overseas  Knox is the first place they need to overhaul.  Get rid of the drunken behaviour aping as "tradition" and bring in a new system which will create a credible academic college.  I applaud the Presbyterian Church Council's decision to do this and wholeheartedly approve of it.  I just wish it had happened before my daughter had a miserable time at Knox. [abridged]

My point was that the real issue - safety of students - is being sidelined by the rather minor issue of whether "traditional" events are continued.

The Presbyterian Church did not make a decision to take over the running of the college in order to remove traditions (most of which will remain as is demonstrated in the student handbook).  The very idea that they have a campaign against tradition is laughable and their letter to students and parents makes this quite clear.

The church took this action in order to make sure that students were provided with a safe and caring environment.

Why anyone would protest against this is beyond me.

Yes Max there were protests when Knox admitted women and yes people did bandy about words like tradition but despite its "modernisation" the majority of Knox traditions evolved and remained at the core of the institution. Perhaps there were some students whose needs were not met at Knox College but how exactly does that get fixed by homogenizing the College to match every other hall of residence at Otago?

Traditions at Knox have evolved and will always evolve but there are certain things that could be left well enough alone. Renaming locations and the titles of staff members is about homogenizing the college and submitting to the ways of political correctness. Heaven forbid a student should have to refer to someone as the Porter and if they don't know the term or that person's historical role actually learn something in the process. Heaven forbid students have to wear semi-formal attire to dinner. Heaven forbid students are allowed to drink in a controlled and regulated environment, something I think can be agreed is necessary in being to deal with the culture of binge drinking that has and continues to pervade New Zealand society. That is not a student issue alone. [abridged]

Knox was an accident waiting to happen.  It had gotten out of control and I am surprised it took this long for a change to occur. Students were abused physically and verbally by others there often drunk from alcohol and power. They were subjected to being "bathed" for any paltry offence in front of a group egging it on. Bathing was a bath full of vomit, cat food and any other foul item. The kids were held down, hit, slapped and punched and taunted in front of their peers. The amount of vomit every weekend all over the place from binge drinking was rife.  I regret my offspring ever attended there and so did they. 

Thank goodness someone woke up to see what was really going on. Time for Knox to better itself, it's reputation, and to be better for the students that live there in what should be a safe, happy time not one of fear, intimidation, bullying and binge partying. [abridged]

It should be noted that the Facebook group with over 1000 people includes many people that have been added to the group by others in the effort to make ex-Knox residents aware of the changes that are happening there. Not that many people have joined themselves - and the views expressed there are diverse.

Though many students, including my own daughters, have had a great experience at Knox, the commission's publicly stated intention to make Knox a 'safe and caring' place for all residents underlines the fact that the review found this was not always the case and that it was of sufficient concern to require immediate changes.

If this subset of Knox students making such a fuss really want to keep traditions that have been around "100 years", I assume they want to ban women from the hall, and make it completely alchohol free to return it to its 100-year-old traditions? Of course not. Like everyone else, they accept that some change is for the better.

I expect there was an equally vocal protest when women were allowed into the hall, with the word "tradition" being thrown around with the same abandon. Like the rest of the University Knox has changed constantly throughout the years and the idea that the way it is now is a timeless tradition is a myth.

Rather than this knee-jerk "all change is bad" reaction we are seeing, I suggest people take a pause and consider what is really being done.

The central issue which the Presbyterian church is concerned with is the safety and wellbeing of students. This very important issue has been side-lined by students getting all worked up about pseudo-tradition. Perhaps there were some health and safety issues and students who were not being provided with a safe and secure accommodation by the outgoing administration - this is what I really want to see reported.

No smoke without fire? Let's hear the full story ODT!