Video: Trouble flares in Castle St

Skillo I have read your post again and nothing has changed.

Your post is about students. So when considering numbers you need to use total student numbers to determine proportions be they major or minor. Not sure why you have turned them into beneficiaries unless to suggest they are the ones committing the benefit fraud mentioned in Max's post as well as the street disorder.

You state 'To claim constantly that it is a small minority doing all the damage etc reeks of hypocrisy' Where is the hypocrisy in showing that 1 to 2 percent of students at most are responsible.

You are also wrong in two other aspects of your post I have never tried to 'justify this sort of behaviour' and I did not single out students, I was simply replying to your post which was about students.

I do not condone this type of behaviour by anyone but I am against the council or others taking a blanket ban approach which can affect numerous other innocent parties.
[Abridged]

@dundeeboy, I think you need to read properly because I never once stated the entire student population of 22,000+ was/were involved in these particular incidents. You have made an unjustifiable assumption that I have. I fail to see why you continue to try to justify this sort of behaviour?

I also noticed you have singled out the student aspect; something I have myself alluded too in my post. That said, I have also stated in previous posts that the blanket ban affects the entire population or North Dunedin and not just the students.

It seems to me that you cannot see what is obvious, or perhaps you refuse to see what is obvious, and are trying to continue to justify the behaviour as youthful pranks. I live in this area and am disgusted at the damage etc that is been done when a particular group of 'people' return for ten months of the year. [abridged]

Skillo your attempt to show the students playing up in Castle St are not a minority and are a majority is not supported by the numbers.

You try to argue it is not just the few arrested that count but everyone there. Let's say you are right and for the ease of the arithmetic we say there were 220 people/students there.

There were 22139 students at Otago in 2010 so your 220 ratbags still only comes to1 percent. Lets double the number to 440 - still only 2 percent.

A long way from a majority.

Max thanks for pointing out the consistency of ODT in the reporting of students' and beneficaries' occupations where offences are committed. It should be noted the police only write down what occupation you tell them and no effort is made to confirm the veracity of the information.

But while we are on the topic of consistency, if the answer to a few students playing up is to place a blanket alcohol ban on all students in a particular area is the answer to benefit fraud to do the same?

Place a blanket ban on beneficiaries and prohibit benefits in a certain area - let's say the whole of New Zealand, so we make sure we are covered and all benefit fraud is prevented.

After all benefit fraud affects all New Zealand taxpayers.

In a broad sense, most students are in fact beneficiaries themselves, given they choose to take out a loan or living costs that is paid for by the New Zealand taxpayer, and as such, many are not working and actually contributing to the New Zealand society's coffers until they hopefully gain employment.

To claim constantly that it is a small minority doing all the damage etc reeks of hypocrisy given it only takes one person to start the ball rolling. Add the 'mob mentality', along with the alcohol and other illicit substances being consumed, and it doesn't take long before a minority becomes a majority, given the numbers present at the time. Those that think they're not responsible because they were just there watching etc, need to think again given they're actually actively taking part by their individual endorsement of watching or participating in such events.

There seems to be an all too familiar cry of the blame aspect and a non willingness to take individual responsibility. Students and other young people cried out for being treated as adults, yet they play on the fact that they're only young when things get out of hand, in what amounts to 'having one's cake and eating it too'.

Now let's see just how proactive and constructive the University of Otago will be. More warnings, talking too and pathetic kid gloves treatment comes to my mind. [abridged]

I don't need perspective I see the results of students not being capable of holding their booze or looking after themselves or mates every night. 

I have seen all the "riots" first hand and your assumptions are right - the cops did probably only arrest one out of every 5 or so wrongdoers.

You need to stop saying there are over 20,000 students at University and using that as an argument about numbers being arrested- it wasn't all those 20,000 at the Undie 500 debacles, or who go to O'week parties and events. 

After reading your reply I am more inclined to say good on the ODT and other media, keep reporting students getting arrested, keep filming them in the throes of anti-social behaviour. It gives me more respect (not that I did not have it before) for the rest of the people in this city that don't go round burning couches, kicking over rubbish bins, running over cars, kicking in fences, causing fights, generally being muppets. You know. non-student people, like beneficiaries for example. At least most beneficiaries can handle their alcohol. But that is only an assumption of mine, and maybe some generalising too.............

There was a story recently about dozens of beneficiaries being done for benefit fraud...

@wtf "Not saying all of the 18-20yr old students in Dunedin are like this but a good percentage are, the evidence speaks for itself. "

Seriously? Ok, let's put it in perspective. Undie 500 '09 (undeniably the worst behaved weekend in recent memory), 26 Otago students charged as a result. There are over 20,000 students here at the University alone. 26/20,000 is around 1.3%. I'm not sure in what world that is a 'good percentage'. Hell, even if we assume that the cops only arrested and charged 1 in every 5 wrongdoers that weekend (a very generous assumption) that's still only 5% of the total University Student population.

I repeat - most students are not like this, most students don't act like prats when drinking, most students are capable of acting like any other Dunedinite when drunk, and those that do behave this way make up less than 5% of the population.

For the ODT to consistently prominently mention in stories like this that those arrested were students fosters an inherent bias against students. We never see the ODT reporting that '7 beneficiaries were arrested' as a result of whatever incident, despite this group being prominently featured in Court News every week, so why does the ODT choose to focus on students' behaviour if not because of an innate bias against them?

Good on the police for arresting up to eight, I bet they could have locked up more. Some of them don't now how to control themselves on the booze and need a dose of reality i.e the cold floor of a jail cell.

The majority of Dunedinites - Emergency Services, Uni/Polytech Staff, DCC, Retailers etc understand that it is only a small percentage and the majority are fine folk. Not sure why the ODT is being slammed here for 'negative' reporting, there is nothing in this article lumping all students under the drunken idiot umbrella. Yes reporting in the past has leaned that way but this video/article tells it how it is.

Raise the purchase age of alcohol to 20yrs, leave on-licences at 18yrs. Might go some way to making sure that some of the next few years of 18-20yr olds aren't binge-drinking, disrespectful, arrogant muppets that go overboard consistently on the booze. Not saying all of the 18-20yr old students in Dunedin are like this but a good percentage are, the evidence speaks for itself. 

During the holiday period, along Cargill St there were many examples of burnt boxes, at least one burnt-out couch, rubbish and mail all over the place. The rubbish on Cargill presently has been there for over a week. Plenty of letter boxes pulled off poles down Stuart St. A couple of general examples in just this area. I'm not inclined to blame the university students for those though. There are many other individuals and parties associated with this behaviour. Excessive alcohol consumption would probably be behind most of it.

I've just watched the video - and am not sure why this non-event is news.    I welcome the return of the students to our city and am delighted at the energy, creativity and fun the large majority of them bring.   Without them this city would be very poor in many ways.

Certainly there are going to be problems with any influx of 20,000 people but I'm not seeing the city pour a million dollars of ratepayers' money to welcome this crowd as they did for another event late last year.  

If I had to pick which of the two groups brings the greatest long term benefit to Dunedin at the least cost, I would pick the students everytime.  

So the fact that there were no fires in Castle Street while the students were away but when they arrive back there are several within days, is that just a coincidence?

Sorry, but I have to agree with farco115 on this one. I've been a student here for 7 years now, and every time something happens in the student area, the ODT/public leap all over the students and trumpet from the rooftops that we are 'out of control'.

Take for instance the '09 Castle St Undie 500 fracas - the majority of those arrested were non-local students (only 26/67 charged were Otago students), yet the ODT focussed on the student behaviour and continue to do so, constantly mentioning the 'riots' in the same sentence as 'student', forming the implication that the disorder was the result of students, not the numerous out-of-towners who were arrested.

In fact, the ODT makes no effort to withdraw demonstrably untrue statements regarding student behaviour - I found in one article the statement that "About 80% of those arrested across both nights were Otago
students, 10% were from the University of Canterbury and 10%
were not students". Even if we assume that the missing 13 who were not charged were all Otago students, that only makes it 39/80 arrested - less than 50%.

This article, while factually accurate, is just another example of how willing the ODT is to leap on student misbehaviour and tar us all with the same brush.

In my 7 years here I have never been arrested, never lit a fire, and the only bottles that I have broken have come from me dropping the recycling bin on the way out to the footpath one icy morning. I'm not alone in this as I know many people who have the same standards of behaviour, and I look forward to the day when I live and work in a city where the media don't beat on and vilify a large and important sector of the local economy because of the behaviours of a few of those in that sector.

It is no surprise that the students have been back in town less than a few days and fires start in Castle St - nothing like this happened over Xmas when students were gone so it doesn't take a genius to see what the problem is.

I am sure if this happened in South Dunedin then it would be on the front page of the newspaper and the people responsible would get more bad press than is shown here.

While I agree that it is not all students, it's time to stand up and say no more bad behaviour from the small group of students. We don't want people to come here and cause near riots and fires in our streets. Would they do it in their own city?

@ farco115  For the life of me, I am trying to find anything negative about the report other than what actually transpired last night in Castle Street.  Was that video actually an enactment by "non-students"?

Why, I ask, does the ODT seem intent on blowing everything negative about students way out of proportion, giving the general the idea that students are trouble? 

Not everyone in the student district actively goes around smashing bottles, harrassing police and playing loud muisc. In fact a few of us even try to get some sleep! And god forbid we study. Imagine that.

A few idiots on Castle street is nothing new, and has been that way for as long as anyone cares to remember, just be glad you don't live there. Those sensible students such as myself and my flatmates have to put up with the bad reputation and everything else that comes from living in that area.

Don't ever lump us into one group.