Stadium plaza plans released

Naidour; I've heard of rose tinted glasses, but a rose tainted sniffer that can call that a rose, now that's different.  

It might be the world's best stadium, - if it were in a place like Paris, or somewhere central with a huge population but this is Dunedin, that has far different needs, not wants, and plies its trade in far different ways in its local economy, not big debt millstones as even large population centres have shown with their well supported stadia.

To expect we should swing in behind just because its there and follow like lemmings is much like an airline putting on a jumbo jet for a short route that only requires a 70 seater prop plane, and then expecting everyone to support it.  But worse here as we said no to it and then have to pay for it.

It's there, yes, nothing we can do there, democracy failed.  But to think I'll now support it.... you know what you can do.

I don't object to the stadium per se either. I object to bad local government. If there had been no private Working Party and no private 'stakeholders' meetings, it couldn't have happened. Because who was saying and making understandings about what to whom would have had to take place in public. And passing public business to a trust which had no legal requirement to disclose anything was a deliberately non-transparent process.

Unfortunately the only check and balance about this kind of bad local govt is ratepayer protest en masse. Remembering it is like remembering a war you lost so it doesn't happen again.

"get with it and help make it the success it deserves to be"

It does need to be success but only because we have spend more than all our pennies on it.

Oh I am sure this Stadium is a very fine thing indeed, paid for with our stolen lunch money.  Well at least that is the impression at morning tea. 

[Abridged]

Spider,I see you said 'possibly the best stadium in the world'. Not that I'd agree. It's pretty parochial to describe something as the best, or 'possibly' so, when it's your own. It's a bit like saying you have the best mum/dad in the world. True, from a personal perspective, but others will disagree. 

Today I got my rates bill and just about got a heart attack. My rates have gone up almost by $500!   

I just wish the old boys club could have waited for better times to build this stadium. They pushed it at one of the worst times in our economic history: power, food, dairy, taxes, and just about everything else has gone through the roof while my income has remained the same, which equals very low.

What are we who are not so fortunate supposed to do - borrow more money from the loan sharks? I have worked hard all my life for what I have and I cannot understand why the fat cats of this city even have to take that away. 

If the stadium is such a cash cow as Farry has suggested, why doesn't he and his friends buy it?

Its not the stadium that bugs me, "naidour". It's the whole undisciplined, unethical, immoral process that brought it about.

It was the lies; the half truths; the secrecy; the arrogance; the "capped" project cost; the"extras" that should have been included in the project budget; the moving of the goalposts; the broken promises; the brushing aside of ratepayer concerns; the power given to non-elected people. These are the things that annoy me.

And worst of all, nothing has happened since the council gave initial project approval to prevent it all happening again. There are no safeguards. We still have the "old-boys - old money" club. The Local Government Act does not protect ratepayers from an out-of-control council. These are what I worry about, because it is darned obvious that the council doesn't worry.

So spider: I guess if it really is the "Best Stadium in the World" you must have a great solution for the debt problem caused by this great stadium  - perhaps you're going to actually pay a ticket price that will cover the real costs of building it? I figure that's about $500 we're giving you every time you sit down in it. I'm sure you can afford it - we all know the DCC can't.

Or perhaps you and the rest of the rugby fans have decided you will collectively pull finger out of wherever and actually raise some of that private fundraising your Mr Farry promised us. We're running out of time - every month the city is borrowing more money to pay the interest payments on the debt that they can't afford to make. At the moment we're not paying off the debt. It is increasing faster than we can pay it by $8m a year.

You'll notice I'm not complaining about the stadium here. My main problem is with the debt and the process we went through to build it, and as you suggested I've made some constructive suggestions about what you can do about the debt. It's up to you now to be responsible and do your part to help pay for your stadium.

Those of us who saw from the beginning that a rates-payer funded stadium would be a crippling burden are often exhorted to "get behind it" and now naidor/spider exhorts us to "get withit and help make it the success it deserves to be" because if we do it we can "help make it an even bigger asset than italready is". 

What I have often asked is, precisely what do you want us to do?  What concrete examples of getting behind it and helping it can you give, so that I can understand precisely what it is that you are asking us to do?  We are already paying through rates/rent, which to my mind is a big contribution considering that the people who actually say they wanted it have paid so very little else, personal donations being amazingly few. 

Another thing - very few people if any were anti-stadium.  For my part I'd have been unconcerned if stadia had been built in every suburb. Every man and his dog could build a stadium as far as I am concerned - all I ask is that those who want it should pay for it out of their own pockets. 

Actually, that was not far from the original "sales spiel" - it would be largely funded from the private sector with very little asked from the DCC and ORC, but somehow the private sector was not keen when it came to putting their hands in their own pockets.

I wonder whether the time has come for all the knockers of anything to do with possibly the best stadium in the world gave it a rest. Constructive comment is relevant but the doom wishers need to smell the roses, realise the stadium is actually finished, built,... not going away, so get with it and help make it the success it deserves to be. If the antis do so and help make it an even bigger asset than it already is the people of Dunedin will in future reflect on it with great pride.

Roll on every event the Stadium can host. The possibilities are endless.

Spider

Good call digger! I think that a bust of Malcolm would be fitting...along with a perpetual supply of rotten tomatoes to throw at it.

[Abridged]

Right colour - wrong material.

I note there is provision for sculptures. I was wondering if Malcolm Farry has ordered a bronze bust of himself to be placed on the plaza.

But wait! The best is yet to arrive from the foreshore. Surely a $40,000 Oamaru stone edifice warrants a place in front of the stadium. Surely the committee who purchased the "Teeth" will be pleased to see them moved to where hundreds of thousands can gape in awe!!

Digger: I was wondering about that too - it seems to have lots of steps and obstacles - not exactly a well thought out place to be releasing a bunch of drunken rugby fans into after a game - I can imagine a rush, someone falling on the steps and being crushed - it doesn't seem to be fit for purpose to me, I hope the university is well insured (we know the DCC isn't at this point).

Personally I hope they don't do what the drawing shows and plant a bunch of boring identical trees all the same size in rows -  that means that years from now they'll all die off at the same time - better to think more than a year ahead and plant a mix of species and ages so that they can be replaced one by one as they age - this is the sort of thing you actually hire good landscaping experts to advise you of ahead of time.

Could someone who is an expert in landscaping please tell me what is original or innovative in this stadium plaza design?

Hasn't the university been allowed enough street-closures, re-routings and other impediments to the access of Dunedin's citizens-at-large over the last decade or two, without the addition of further impedimentia to non-student activity in the area? How does the university achieve its 'sacred-cow' status in all planning related to the city, to the extent that no request from that quarter ever appears to be not acceded to?

The most significant contact which most of the affected have with the university, is ridiculous charges by its graduates for professional services rendered once they have qualified, and an on-going second tier of 'entitlements' over and above those enjoyed by the bulk of the 'great unwashed'.

Significantly, the university is being seen to emerge from this re-structuring of the Awatea Street vicinity, as the recipient of the greatest rewards, in return for the most niggardly and grudging input. Was this what was eagerly grasped by its authorities as 'synergy'?

[Abridged]

I totally agree endicott. These dangerous kerb protrusions and islands in the middle of our roads are popping up all over our city like cancer. Note the mess at the bottom end of Albany Street. The islands restrict the traffic so much that larger vehicles have to mount the island to get through which has broken up the concrete already.

They make it impossible to avoid things that happen in daily traffic. Say someone inadvertantly pulls out in front of you, you have nowhere to go as these islands stop you from deviating from the prescribed path, much the same as the high kerbing allong Andersons Bay Road on the grass median strip.

Kerb protrusions and huge masses of ugly concrete inhibit the "flow" of traffic as your squeezed together into the path of oncoming traffic or parked cars. Yeah, very safe!

But I guess thats what the DCC calls "progression". Choke our streets with cholesterol like lumps in fatty arteries.

Still, at least they're being consistant.

[Abridged]

Anyone who has travelled this section of ANZAC (note the capitals - this is an acronym not a word) Ave since the opening of the new road can not help but notice the decline in traffic.  The abscence of trucks is very noticeable.

Once again, well done to all involved.  This looks great, and has the potential to liven up the whole area.

Despite the whinges of the knockers, good job.

Even if no one else likes it, the skaters will get some use out of the new terrain.

It is unfortunate a large roundabout wasn't used on Anzac Ave at Frederick Street instead of the terribly confused mess of islands, bends and lights they went with.

So once again we have potential University takeovers of city streets adjacent to their new building by Anzac Avenue.The Farry/University consortium have never had an authority to close streets. Quarry traffic will still use Anzac Ave. So will traffic coming from the Gardens via Dundas and Union Street East. So will traffic going to Logan Park, Caledonian Ground,University Oval,Logan Park High School, and the Hocken Library. For Cr Brown to say Anzac Ave will be a low volume road is a silly statement.Just what was "agreed to" between M Farry and the University pre-stadium construction in regard to Anzac Ave?  Obviously this has been "blacklined" and is not open to viewing by we mere taxpayers who will pay for many years for Stadiums and University buildings.

The design is awful, there's too much clutter.  The seating is blocking access to the building too.  Who was responsible for this mess?