Stuart St cable car plan rejected

I think that the ODT survey misses the point in for Dunedin to have a really useful system both High street and Stuart Street would have their cablecars. With for instance the High Street travelling along Princes street to the Octagon and then down to the railway station, while Stuart street cars would go along George to say Frederick or Albany or even to the motorway. With carraige being free in the CBD as the road would be closed to private transport between Frederick and Rattray, cross traffic permitted of course. But with all the money devoted to the Stadium and Town Hall these are simply pie dreams.

Wellington has changed its cable car set-up since I was there fifty plus years ago. But going around the Octagon is no great feat because the San Francisco cars on at least one route go around right angle corner[s] with power coming from the cable driven from the central powerhouse. Again it was 1996 when I stayed in that city. So with the 'grip' system the cable cars could come down Stuart street and then along George street to Frederick and deliver the customers to the shops ... it is nice to day dream.

It still limits them to 2 cars, I presume the gripped cable reversed direction once the cars reached the top (otherwise the balance cable would get tangled if the cars actually followed a loop) - with gripped cars on either side it would have to be double track all the way (or else the cables underground would run too close together).

The Wellington car has the added advantage of being completely straight - gripped cars have problems with cables going around corners, in some places they get away with this by leaving the cable and coasting down hill - going up Rattray St corner (outside the Cathedral) proved to be a spot where neither of these were possible and an enterprising local inventor came up with a solution that became used everywhere (still in SF). An Octagon loop would have a similar, but actually much more extreme, problem making the up-hill turn into Stuart St past Hoyts - I'd guess it would have to cut the corner closely and stop all traffic.

As of 1978, Wellington no longer had a cable car, but a funicular. You are correct in how you describe its current operation MikeStk. However, it used to be a cable car, with gripman etc and a continuously running rope. Because of the steepness, however, the old Wellington system did have a second funicular style rope as a counterbalance between the cars (but this was not driven). Further, according to wikipedia, the old system was in fact double track all the way.

And to follow up my previous post here's an article on the San Francisco Cable Car Museum's website describing Dunedin's system. The wider site describes how SF and Dunedin's cars work. An interesting quote from here is "Unlike the fixed counterbalanced Kelburn cable line in Wellington, Dunedin's cable trams were hauled by stationary steam engine propelled, endless wire ropes that ran between the rails beneath the ground."

On the other hand here's a a great picture of the single track portion of the Kelburn car and of the spot in the middle where it splits in two so that cars can pass.

The Wellington cable cars use a single track except for the spot in the middle where they pass. They have a single U-shaped cable with a cable car suspended at each end and a big pulley at the top - one comes up when the other goes down. The cable reverses direction each time the cable cars run. In many ways it's actually more like an outdoor lift running on an incline.

Dunedin's old cable cars (and San Francisco's) were quite different. They use tracks in a loop, one going up and one going down (not quite - there's a manual turnabout at each end which is why I said that running around the Octagon is inspired). There is a single cable under the ground in a loop going up one side of the street under one track and back down the other side under the other track. The cable never stops. The cable cars are not directly attached to a fixed point on the cable, instead the car's 'gripman' manipulates a 'grip' under the road that grabs the cable when he wants to start the car and releases it when he wants to stop. It requires a lot of strength - the cars brake by pressing brakes on the track with the weight of the car. This is why only stopping at flat spots is safe.

Mikestk is in error if he is describing the Wellington CableCars as single track. Maybe I misread his comment. I travelled on them most days when I lived in Wellington's Kelburn. It is also one of my 'achievements' to have travelled on the three cablecars surrounding the Pacific ... Wellington, Hong Kong, and finally in San Francisco. I am sure OSH would have something to say after my experience of strap hanging on the 'wrong' side of a SF car when another car passed us on my side complete with its straphangers ... we all breathed in.

In my circle of friends and acquaintances it's known simply as 'The unwanted stadium'.

On the surface of it, the idea is attractive. I rode the 'Roslyn' Cable-Car when it was still running, and the views from it as it approached the top of its steep incline were really something. However, a friend recently showed me some video-footage which he had taken of the San Francisco Cable-Cars and I took particular note of the way those who were not seated were seen 'strap-hanging' around the cars' margins. I can see now, the heavy hand of 'OSH' descending on this brilliant idea like a lead balloon, and all the fun being legislated out of the experience by the 'fun-police'. For that reason, I think we should tread carefully before getting too carried away.

The public plans I've seen in the past involved single track solutions - the same sort of design as in Wellington, not the two track 'true' cable cars Dunedin used to have (and San Francisco still does have) - with a 2 track system we could run our old refurbished cars (and recent copies).

For the true cable car experience really we need 2 track cars with a continuous cable and grips - that means that the stops have to be flat for the cars to stop safely - it's also why High St is a bunch of steps - it was made that way for the cable cars .... this is why High St is a better site for cable cars than Stuart St (though I must admit running cable cars down and around the Octagon is an inspired idea).

Mind you our local drivers who can barely share the road with pedestrians would have to learn to understand that cable cars get right of way at all times.

As the power brokers in Dunedin are obviously egocentric it would be best to align any proposal to meet their wants: A cable car running from the Chin Bin to Maori Hill would be the obvious solution. However a cable car seems a bit pointless when it's route would be restrictive. A tram which has the potential for network expansion is a much better proposal. What about a tram linking Mornington with the University or the Chin Bin?

No longer called Farry's Folly, now to be known as Chin's Loo. Much more in keeping with its future.

Dunedin could have become a unique little city with cable cars and an historic village situated somewhere along the cable car's trail. But the visionaries of Dunedin could think no further ahead than providing a stadium for the rugby world cup.

After the hustle and bustle of the rugby world cup has died down, with empty hotels and motels again and bar owners struggling for survival, Christmas Carols on the icebergs may be the visionaries' next hair brained scheme.

I'd be among the most enthusiastic about the cable car plan if only we weren't being in a python grip, squeezed to financial death by the stadium.

I agree wholeheartedly that a cable car, on either of the suggested routes, would be useful for Dunedin people and a delight for visitors to the city - 365 days a year. But no, even the "core business" such as dealing with effluent to almost today's standard, has hit the pause button.

So I don't want to see the DCC involve itself in this scheme. Not that the feasibility study is any less encouraging than evaluations by non-CST sources of the stadium. No, I just don't want them embarking on another spend-up. I'd really like to have some money left in my own pocket.

A few less "bond strengthening" trips to China and amazing ideas like this one, with real, city-scape changing potential might get past the anti-brigade. The 'heritage city' - truly could be that - what a lift this would give - sure - huge money, but money and changes that would bring a new identity to Dunedin. There wouldn't be a single visitor who did not try to fit it into their itinerary or take photos - have you ever been to San Fran? It is a pity the cable-car didn't have its roots in Shanghai though, or more can-do may have been on the table rather like another project.

What about going to Unity Park? A ride up the hill on a cable car to a view like that would be a fantastic attraction.

Now that they've spent all the money on Farry's Folly any cool ideas are completely infeasible.