A name, residential address, and (preferably residential) telephone number is required from readers who comment on ODT Online. These details will not be visible to site visitors.
Submitted by P Foster on Fri, 16/10/2009 - 1:33pm.
I understand that the original dialect of the area did not
have the wh as ph and it was in fact Wanganui, as the then
local inhabitants pronounced it. This issue is being promoted
by activists attempting to assert Maori influence. The name
is really irrelevant, it is just an excuse to rally troops to
the cause. It is time to move on and be one people so leave
the name alone.
Toby: Maybe we are missing the point, which is that it's a
linguistic matter, despite Paul Moon's article in the
NZ Herald last Friday claiming it was racism and
bigotry. With the resurgence of Te Reo and Maori pride many
Maoris seem to think that when another language adopts a
Maori word it must stick with Maori usage. This is just not a
requirement when one language adopts a word from another
language. Eg, futebol (Portuguese), fútbol (Spanish) for
football. It's time that Maori users realized that having
pride in their language does not mean they have to prescribe
for other languages.
Everyone seems to be missing the point here - the Maori did
not have a written language so how the hell can they say that
we are spelling it wrong, when they did not spell it at all?
If all this Wh spelling is taken from the way they pronounce
some names, we should have Faangerie, Faakatane, Kowfy,
Faanau etc.
Wh does not sound like an "F" or if it does Fot do we say Fen
we are trying to be Whunny.
It is just a load of powertripping by some PC morons trying
to rewrite history.
It may be PC to rewrite history, but what about 85% of New
Zealanders' history? Isn't that important too? Next it will
be Ohtago. It may be different if a town was founded by
Maori and named by them.
Submitted by JezWelly on Fri, 02/10/2009 - 9:09am.
This is an important decision as it sets a bad precedent for
other towns to be renamed.
The way we spell Wanganui is part of New Zealands evolving
cultural heritage as a nation. It is not European or Maori,
its Kiwi. Furthermore it will change the pronounciation as
most people will read and pronounce it as 'WHA' as in
WHAKAPAPA or WHANGAREI. Whereas the correct Maori dialect of
that particular part of Taranaki stipulates it should be
pronounced as 'WA' as it is now in WANGANUI.
Given it has been written as Wanganui for over 150 years and
there was no formal written Maori language prior to this, it
would be disrespectful to the Kiwi cultural heritage of 7
generations to change it now. Its is what it is and thats how
it has evolved.
Allan is absolutely spot-on.
There is no reason to expect a place to have the same name in
all languages; anywhere that is vaguely important is likely
to have several names in several languages, and be known
differently by different groups.
It's common for places of local interest to have a local
"nickname" which eventually becomes the "official" name of
the place. This has effectively happened to Wanganui.
"Wanganui" is no longer a Maori word meaning "Great Bay", it
is an English word referring to the place which has come to
be known by that name.
It isn't worth getting so het-up about is it? The
pronunciation isn't changing and Maori feel strongly about it
so let them have the H. It seems sensible that it should be
spelled the same as the river.
I voted no because English usage does not have to follow
Maori usage, just as Maori usage does not have to follow
English. Names are primarily identifiers. They may or may not
have meaning. In Maori whanga means harbour; nui, big.
Whanganui has meaning. Wanganui doesn't. In English neither
has meaning. In English, Wanganui has over 150 years of
customary use. The people who live there have said they want
to keep it that way. Those are two very good reasons for
English to keep it as is. Also, many places have names spelt
differently in different languages. Think London (English,
German, Danish, Swedish, and others), Londres (French,
Spanish, Portuguese), Londen (Dutch, Afrikaans), Londain
(Irish), Londra (Italian), Lundene (Anglo-Saxon), and its
original Londinium (Latin). Among others. And what about
Dunedin/Otepoti? Okay, the river has the 'h', but is claimed
by local Maori tribes, and they have some ownership over it.
But look at Hawkes Bay (the land) and Hawke Bay (the sea),
and Mackenzie Country (and Pass and River), but James
McKenzie after whom they are named. When many years ago I
started out as a proofreader at the ODT, I was told there was
no accounting for the spelling of names. They were as their
owners declared they were. The owners of the name Wanganui
are the people who live there. It's their right to spell it
as they wish. So, Minister Williamson has an easy choice:
Whanganui in Maori; Wanganui in English.
A name, residential address, and (preferably residential) telephone number is required from readers who comment on ODT Online. These details will not be visible to site visitors.