Put down the calculators and grab a dictionary - it is semantics rather than numbers that keeps the tug-of-war going between the Ponsonby and University rugby clubs.
Both clubs proudly claimed to have produced the most All Blacks but those claims hinge on how you frame the debate.
As far as Ponsonby Rugby Club is concerned, it has produced 45 All Blacks, the most recent being Rieko Ioane, who made his All Black debut against Italy last weekend.
University Rugby Football Club is one back on 44 but it disputes Ponsonby's total and still believes it is the frontrunner.
The problem appears to be one of interpretation rather than accounting. Ponsonby historian Paul Neazor said the criterion for a ''Ponsonby All Black'' was that he was a member of the club when he played for the All Blacks.
University counts its All Blacks if they were a member of the club when they first played for the All Blacks.
The clubs have been comparing apples with oranges. But, for argument's sake, if Ponsonby adopted University's criteria, it would have produced 40 All Blacks, Neazor said.
But University would have to drop one to 43 as Tony Davies was selected for the 1960 South African tour as an Auckland player but changed his enrolment to Otago during the year.
Neazor said Ponsonby was responsible for part of the confusion, as some of the players listed on its website as being Ponsonby All Blacks did not belong on the list. The club is in the process of updating its site.
However, Neazor was confident his research was accurate and Ponsonby could claim 45 All Blacks.
''This topic has produced some heated debates down the years, but until Patrick Tuipulotu was chosen in 2014, the southerners held a lead that stood up to the most searching examination,'' Neazor wrote in a newsletter he has prepared for the club.
''A visit to the Otago University website will show a list of 68 players who represented New Zealand and who had, at some stage of their careers, played for Varsity.
''The players who were still with the club when selected are highlighted and, as noted, there are 44 of them. The other 24 had moved on by the time the ultimate selection call came.
''Ponsonby's list of All Blacks includes six players who were chosen for New Zealand while with Ponsonby and also while with other clubs or unions.''
The six players at the centre of the debate are: Morrie Wood, a Ponsonby All Black in 1904 who was previously with Wellington and Canterbury; George Nicholson (1907), previously with City club; Bill Cunningham (1907-08), previously with two clubs in the Thames area; George Gillett (1907-08), previously with Canterbury; Bert Palmer (1928-29), who transferred to the Otahuhu club; and Troy Flavell (2006-07), who was previously with North Harbour.
