The former New Zealand rugby league representative and Kiwis coach has joined Jamie Joseph’s staff as an assistant coach with responsibility for defence.
Hayden Meikle sits down for a yarn.
Kidwell: Just my connection with Jamie Joseph. I actually met him years ago when he did some professional development work with the Melbourne Storm, where I was coaching. Then we bumped into each other where I live in Sydney, in Coogee. And then he sort of got me over with the Japan team in 2019, before the World Cup. I just did some very basic stuff with them and kept in touch ever since. And boom, here I am in beautiful sunny Dunedin.
Have you got any connection to Dunedin at all? Any memories here?
I did come down here for volleyball tournaments when I was at high school. I grew up in Christchurch, so I’m a southern man at heart. But I’ve been living away for 30-odd years now, chasing my NRL dream and then into the coaching over there.
They talk down here about culture - the "Highlander man" and that sort of thing. What’s it been like for an outsider so far?
Everyone’s from different areas. I’m from Australia, some come from up north, some down here. So it’s a great way to get everyone connected. I really like that. We all come from different cultures and systems, but to get where we want to get to and what we need to do, on the field and off the field, we need to do it together. I really like the Highlanders way and the Highlander man. I’m still learning about what it is and what it looks like. For me, it’s about getting to know the guys first as men before rugby players. And then they can get to know me and how I coach and how I am. It’s early days but so far I’m really enjoying it.
Have you got family with you?
No, just on my own. My wife and my two kids are back in Sydney. My daughters are older and my wife’s got her own business. She’s a Kiwi girl from Christchurch. Unfortunately, she likes the Sydney weather. I will duck home for Christmas. Hopefully, my family will come over for a trial game, and they’ll definitely be there for the Christchurch round.
What was it like working, as a player then an assistant coach, with Melbourne Storm coach Craig Bellamy?
Yeah, awesome. I played four years at the Storm, and had three years as a coach down there. So that’s when I really found out about coaching. It was a great place to learn. I would have stayed there if I could, but I was living away from my family. I was at that stage with my kids that I needed to go back.
The other interesting bloke you’ve worked with is former Wallabies coach Michael Cheika, firstly with the Pumas then the Leicester rugby club. What was that like?
Great guy. I didn’t really know Michael when I switched from rugby league to rugby union. When I first met him, we sat down and he started talking about rugby. I said, "oh, Michael, I have to stop you there, mate. I know I’m a New Zealander, but I don’t know that much about rugby union compared to what I know about league". And he goes, "yep, sweet, I want a different perspective on what we can enhance in rugby for Argentina". And we just got on like a house on fire. With Leicester, I knew I had to get more experience in the rugby union space, and that was a chance to do it in one of the big clubs over there in the premiership. I really enjoyed my time there. I got international experience, northern hemisphere experience, and now I’m in the Super Rugby space.
In terms of your big focus, defence, is it easy to describe the differences between rugby and league?
When I first went to rugby, which was Argentina, it was very difficult, but I really focused on, "OK, how can I get the similarities between rugby league and rugby union?" Well, basically, if the ruck’s fast, the defence can’t get set, and you’re always on the back foot. And that happens in rugby league and rugby union. Quick ball means the defence can’t get set or come forward. Slow ball means we can get set and get aligned and put some pressure on attack. So I’ve always held that as sort of the No 1 thing. How do we slow it down? Well, our contact’s got to be good, and we have to make our tackles.
And tackling style is a bit different between the codes?
Definitely. League, we tackle up top. Rugby union, the chop tackle is part of the game. When I first watched rugby ... chop tackling, head in front, diving, putting yourself in dangerous positions. Even though I want us to be hard and aggressive, I still want us to be safe. You have to go back to the basics to move forward. Lower your height, get your head to the side, be safe, and then go from there.
You were only 39 when you were appointed Kiwis head coach, and you finished after a rough World Cup a year later. How do you look back on your time in that role?
Yeah, I was a young coach. I had started my coaching career with the under-20s team at the Rabbitohs and it went from there. At that time, it was tough. It was very tough, you know, but you have to pick yourself up and move on. I look back and, yeah, I made some mistakes, I did some good things ... but there was growth there. I’ve grown as a coach and I’m really clear on how I want to coach, how I want to proceed with my players, and standards.
Have you enjoyed the move from coaching league to rugby?
Yeah, because I’m learning new things every day about coaching and the game. I’m sort of inquisitive, because I’m not an expert. I ask the coaches questions and they’re like, "OK, that makes sense". And then I try to find solutions or ways that we can manipulate it to make sure it benefits us.
Among the amazing murals around a rebuilt Christchurch is one of you, celebrating your status as a Canterbury league great. How did it feel to see that for the first time?
I remember them contacting me and saying, "we want to put up a bit of a mural". I thought it was going to just be a small one. But it ended up being quite big. I’m a pretty humble person but to have something there in your home city is obviously special.
Twenty-five tests for the Kiwis, about 200 NRL games with the Storm, Rabbitohs, Roosters and Eels - are you proud of what you achieved as a league player?
Yeah, definitely. It was hard growing up in Christchurch because league wasn’t really spoken about like it is today. It’s really surprised me, coming back, how much rugby league is a topic in New Zealand. Among rugby people, too. That’s a total change from when I was growing up. Yeah, you look back on your achievements and you’re always proud, and your family’s proud. And now that chapter’s ended and I’m into another chapter of my life.
Lots of Kiwis fans remember the test against the Kangaroos in 2006 when you absolutely smoked big Willie Mason in a tackle and had a word or two to him. How often do people want to talk to you about it?
Hah, yeah, it gets brought up quite often. I’ve always believed that what happens on the field stays on the field. That’s a big thing in league because, you know, not everyone can play in that arena. It was just about me being a passionate Kiwi. Even though I’ve been away in Australia, I’m still passionate about my country, about being Māori. And now the attractive thing about being with the Highlanders is that I get to coach my own people, and share my experiences that I’ve had.
