BREW: I'd say probably a little over two months now.
What does a professional development manager do?
The PDM role essentially is organised through the New Zealand Rugby Players’ Association in conjunction with the Highlanders. It supports all the boys' education outside of rugby. Anything to do with life after rugby and trying to transition boys or get them thinking about when rugby finishes, what they're going to get into. It’s setting them up for life after rugby, but it's also helping them be the best possible version of themselves each week. So if that time is spent on decompressing and getting away from rugby so that they're better on the weekend, that's part of the role. It might just be going to play some golf or going out for a fish. It’s all helping them with the balance of being a rugby player.
Is it hard, when you see a 19, 20-year-old kid who dreams of being a Highlander and dreams of being an All Black beyond that, to get them thinking about life after rugby?
It's always a challenge. These young kids want to be All Blacks. They want to be professional rugby players. And unfortunately that dream isn't going to happen for a lot of these kids. I think it's probably a bit harder nowadays. We have high schools ... and the professionalism that these kids are exposed to at younger ages. It is harder for them to think about anything other than rugby. But trying to have the balance of it all is important.
Any Highlanders doing anything really interesting this year?
I haven't been there from the start of preseason, when a lot of the stuff has happened. But there are some boys doing some pre-trade building training through BCITO. There's boys doing youth apprenticeship work. Then there's a few boys doing study through universities. All sorts. It's quite a varied range of the boys' interests. We’ve got a big group doing te reo Māori lessons too. We've got a few boys who whakapapa Māori now who want to continue their reo journey, which is really awesome.
You were a proud Māori All Black. Did you speak te reo when you were younger?
I'm very much in the same boat as these boys. I wouldn't class myself as a fluent speaker, but I'm actively learning. My role post-rugby is education, so I've come from a teaching background, and a lot of my teaching has been in te reo Māori or doing kapa haka.
The Highlanders have usually had a really broad mix of cultures. Do you enjoy that?
A big part of our player group have come from outside. I think the Highlanders do a really good job of trying to create a culture with a Southern man approach or a set of values that Southern men abide by, which is really neat. It's really the expectation of those boys coming in is to try and buy into that, because on a whole, most of the boys value that space.
Injuries, non-selection — those things can really knock a young man's confidence. Are you a counsellor at times to try and pick them up?
I'm a set of ears to listen. The scope of this job is quite varied, and it's quite a big range. But a lot of it is being a sounding board for the boys. They are really well supported if they need extra help with dealing with stress or anxiety or stuff like that. It's not my specialty to be a counsellor, but I'm definitely mindful. I come back to my own experience of being in this space. I do sympathise and understand what the boys are going through.
When your playing career finished with the Highlanders and Otago, where did you go after that?
And after retirement from rugby?
I was 36 and at that stage it was, like, what am I going to do as a career, as a job? I decided to go teaching. I did most of my teaching at Balmacewen Intermediate, then Otago Boys’. Then I got the opportunity to come into this role. It was a big decision. I really enjoy teaching, and I really enjoy the space of educating and mentoring children, and young men as well.
When you reflect on your rugby career, are you proud of what you achieved?
My goal back then as a rugby player was to play for the All Blacks, and I didn't achieve that. But you learn more from your disappointments, I suppose. That’s the journey of life in general — ups and downs, success and failing. I've got no regrets. I did as much as I could and achieved as much as I possibly could. I’m thankful and humble for that opportunity, you know, to go through being a professional rugby player. And I'm very happy and content with my post-rugby career. Education's been great for me to learn more about myself. And I really value education and being able to better yourself and to prove yourself as a person.
When Highlanders fans think of you, they also think of Seilala Mapusua. What was that midfield combination like for you?
Yeah, it was great. For me, they were great times playing with ’Lala and a number of other players. We spent so much time with each other that we got to know how each other worked, and people’s strengths and weaknesses. I played with some great people. It was almost a semi-professional stage of rugby here. We spent a lot of time off the field with each other, and I probably value, not so much the on-field stuff, but the off-field connections that we made with lots of different players. That's probably the highlight that I carry through life — the friendships and the bonds you make with those people back then. I still carry and value those friendships today.
How old are your kids now?
Nicki and I have two kids, both born in Dunedin. Ruby is 19 now and my son, Nikau, is 15. He’s at King’s. He's a football player. With both our kids, we've supported them in doing what they want to do. Nikau’s definitely found his niche with football.
You’re a southern man now but you were from Taranaki, were you not?
Originally Bay of Plenty. I grew up in a place called Te Whaiti, did my schooling in Murupara, and then I had a stint after high school in Gisborne. I started playing sevens for Poverty Bay, and then went away to the national sevens tournament and got picked up by Taranaki. Colin Cooper offered me an opportunity to come down and play for Taranaki. Then from Taranaki to the Highlanders and Otago. It’s been great. Dunedin is a small place. There's quite a few alumni, old Highlanders who reside here, so we catch up quite regularly.
